Showing posts with label Tiers of Crunch. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Tiers of Crunch. Show all posts

Sunday, February 21, 2016

Hit Locations and Called Shot Criticals

Keith J Davies 
.... hit locations instead of straight random multiplier for damage, and armor coverage

Matt Miller
Hit locations are always a tempting location, but it certainly adds complexity. You roll to hit, roll for hit location, then roll for damage. It adds a fair bit of complexity, because different locations then have different armor values. The bad ones go like this: Attack, Roll for Location, Lookup Location, Lookup AC, Roll for Hit, Roll for damage, Add damage multiplers.
The Skill and Powers 'Called Shot Criticals' did it better, where you chose a location, with harder to hit locations getting a penalty to attack. Then you rolled severity, (based on weapon size) and then got a damage multiplier, and some extra effects. For example, a called shot critical to the head was at -8, but a severity of 10 could mean instant death. Rob ran a campaign where villains kept forgetting their helmets, so a character if AC -5 had a head with an AC 10 (effective AC 2), meaning several significant enemies were one-shotted by being beheaded. It was glorious!...One of the things that people really like is being able to say "I am a cut at his head". Yet the CSC penalty to hit made sure it wasn't something you wanted to do all the time
In fairness, they were supposed to fail a saving throw vs. death as defense against a critical, but we frequently neglected that rule, because it was so much fun. Were it mine to design again, I'd do it like this: Choose a location, with different locations getting a bonus to AC. And then different locations have a different damage dice, damage multiplier, or bonus damage attached.
Keith J Davies 
DnD 3e also had percentage checks for things where character ability and circumstance (mostly) didn't change things. For instance, miss chance due to concealment (20%/50%... unless you had a feat or something that changed it; BAB and high ability scores didn't improve it). Still almost always in steps of 5%, but the percentile roll meant you don't add modifiers.
Matt Miller
The cover/concealment thing was weird, but I think they included that for reasons of spells. A +10 to AC is not the same as a 50% miss chance, which stacks with AC and makes it harder. The sequential filter is nice, as it makes concealment hurt both the characters with low and high BAB equally
Keith J Davies 
I'd say the two rules interact, rather than 'stack'.... If they stacked, though, it should be 0% chance to hit.... The net effect is similar (decreased chance of being hit), but it's not the same thing (there are attacks that ignore AC but not concealment...)



Dnd Complexity Over Time

Matt Miller
  • DnD was most complicated  at 2E (AD&D), where there were different mechanics for: attacks, profiencies, saving throws, thief skills, cleric abilities, spells, ranger abililities, fighter extraordinary strength, fighter weapon specialization: Every class basically had a unique mechanic. XP also varied by class, making multi and dual classing a pain. 
  • Dnd 3.0 really cut down on that, converting almost everything to one of two mechanics: d20 (Attacks, saves, thief skills, cleric turning) or to feats (ranger abilities, weapon specialization). Only spells remained outside that context. XP per class was standardized.
  • Numinara, Monte Cook's take on an advancement from 3E, went simpler, with a single mechanic to manage everything. Strangely, I really don't like it for just that reason--the game has no 'depth'. Once you've mastered the up-front complexity, there isn't anything new to try--just things to optimize 
  • 4th was an attempt to implement World of Warcraft as a table-top game. My recollection is that it implemented everything as 'powers' with per day, per session, and per encounter frequency. Powers were also active, passive, conditional, and triggered. Powers were packaged as part of abilities. Spells were still distinct, but there was extensive use of meta-magic powers to alter spells. Character creation seemed to be a bit of a hassle. 
On reflection, the complication of DnD 2.0 was  actually a good thing. There was more game to play, as every class had a special set of mechanics you could explore. It did make dual-classing or multi-classing a pain.

TIERS OF CRUNCH

Matt Miller
How many rolls, calculations, and look-ups does it take to resolve an normal action? 
(And thus how long does a 'round' of battle take?)

~~~~~~~~~~~TIER 1~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dangerous Journeys
Phoenix Command
Mythus (?)
~~~~~~~~~~~TIER 2~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rolemaster
Powers& Perils
ShadowRun (FASA)
GURPS 3E(?)
HERO?
Warhammer(?)
~~~~~~~~~~~TIER 3~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GURPS 4e
ShadowRun 4th Edition
DND 4e
D&D 5e
Warhammer 40K 6E
Mayhem
DnD: Skills and Powers
DnD 4E
GURPS 4E
Pathfinder
DnD 3.5
DnD 5E
DnD, Advanced (2E)
Savage Worlds
DnD 1E
~~~~~~~~~~~TIER 4~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fate: Dresden Files
One-Roll Engine (?)
D6
HARP
Rules Cyclopedia D&D
Tunnels and Trolls
~~~~~~~~~~~TIER 5~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FUDGE/Fate
Numinara?
Tri-Stat
Amber Diceless (?)

it depends on how much realism/believability we want. The old "initiative, hit, damage, see if still standing" suits some, but others want to work out tactics, work out ranges, add obscure modifiers from books out of print and from obscure web references, check out and interpret effect of actions, use various moves, then attack, work out effect, minus defences, etc.

Dalton Calford 
....some systems can be EXTREMELY CRUNCHY while also being able to be VERY ABSTRACT.For example, Tunnels and Trolls. You can have character by character detailed combat with strategic rolls for manoeuvring, special abilities, ranged and magical combat, or, you can fight out a battle between a million foes to a side with a single die roll, all using the same mechanics......Traveller, over the years, has been comprised of many mini-games that come together into a single system. Even Character generation with it's character death element, becomes a separate standalone game. World development or ship design became as important to the overall gaming experience as actual rpg game play. Gurps, on the other hand, which gives you all the same detail, does not seem to spur on the imagination as much as traveller does. In many ways, producing the exact same material with Gurps as Traveller, is considered a chore instead of fun.